Total Tops: Ugh.

April 7, 2009

We all never forget the first time we lose our virginity.  And gay men are lucky enough to have TWO virginities lost in their lifetime.  You have a choice between which one you want to lose first, and you can never really tell who is going to chose what.  It is either enter the manhole, or push-in the cushion…  I totally remember both vividly.

But there are a small fraction of guys that seem to be outwardly proud that they’ve never (and never will) let a stallion into the stable.  Total Tops?  Gimme a break.

See, I think there is a misconception that ye-who-only-enters is somehow more masculine, and dominant than the man that’s receiving.  First, I have certainly come across some of the manliest men I know that know how, and love to, take it good and long.  Second, I think that this mindset is really just a vestige of straight relationship models. It aims to basically mimic what most of us grew up with… one man, one woman, two roles, both different.  But in a male homosexual relationship there is no woman, you’re two of the same being that can, given our bodies, both give AND receive.  It’s not as simple as lock and key.

I’ll be honest, I’ve gotten a message or two from guys that right off the bat hit me with some variation of “I’m going to fuck you like crazy.”  No “hello,” no “wow you’re handsome” first… just “this is how I’m going to do it to you.”  In ALL of these instances I’ll check their profile and yep… Positions: Top.  That’s it.  Often I just can’t help coming back with… “Hot dude… yeah I’d like to give it to you too.”  The response?  It’s like I suggested they put on a sundress and heels and walk down Main Street; “no way man… I don’t think so.”  You’re responding to a stranger on a social networking site that YOU reached out to… do you really need to prove something to me?  There is an arrogance and defiance there that you certainly don’t hear from total bottoms.  Why is that?

But gay men seem to need to label themselves, and this obviously goes beyond the physicality of the way we like to have sex.  There is a persistent school of thought that the one on the receiving end is less masculine because they have taken the woman’s “role.”  But I have met way too many nelly tops (and crazy butchy bottoms for that matter,) to know that this just isn’t true.  So when I meet a guy that has a strange amount of redic-defiance to being nothing more than an absolute, drill-the-shit, pummeling total “top man”… I have to role my eyes; it doesn’t make you any hotter or studly to me.  Despite the macho aura you’re trying to perpetuate, it comes across like someone who is actually not really comfortable with themselves.  And it should be noted… it doesn’t make you any less gay.

Of course there are a myriad of reasons that anal sex, in general, is a no-go for many.  Risk of HIV, sexual abuse, cleanliness, pain, etc. are all factors that may contribute to a legitimate resistance to anal sex completely.  These are all understandable for sure, not to mention the emotional complications of letting yourself be penetrated, which can be quite profound.   But also I would question those that only top FOR these reasons.  It takes two for this particular tango, and there is an unfairness that I believe has nothing to do with dominance or submissiveness, despite how you want to play and/or relate to the person you’re being intimate with.

On the other hand, I have certainly met some very kind and sweet total tops that are not this model of faux-macho obnoxiousness.  So maybe there are just guys like that, and if people are happy with what they want and their partners are down with it as well, go wild.  These “stereotypical” role-taking relationships work, and that can’t and shouldn’t be denied.

But I’m just a different dude; and you aren’t gettin’ into my funbox, if I’m not gettin’ into yours.

Tags: Tops
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Post written by Cyrus (View Author Profile)
About this author: Writer, DJ, driven, and clueless... I'm still just trying to work it all out, and hope I never do.
View all posts by Cyrus


Interesting article, seeing that on one hand, you decry the fact that "gay men seem to need to label themselves, and this obviously goes beyond the physicality of the way we like to have sex", yet you label men that are total tops.
At least you didn't call all of us macho vestigally hetero male stereotypes, so I suppose there's small thing redeeming in your article, at least.

Not every "total" top is as much of an ass, basket case, or wussy as you make us out to be. I have my reasons for being all top, just as someone who's only a bottom will have theirs, and someone who's vers wants it both ways for their reasons.

And for the record, I would at least attempt to have some conversation with you before I tried to "drill your shit". That's the kind of arrogant, defiant butt virgin I am...but I really would rather you muck out your man-stall first. I haz stndrdz.

I think accepting the fact that people will want what they want, while knowing that they may not suit your preferences, but acknowledging that they're not a sub-par gay "man" because of that, would probably be the adult thing to do.

However, I suppose us total tops will never be as "developed" as you. Pardon me, I think my knuckles are dragging on the keyboard again...enjoy being you. I'll do my best to be me.


silly machismo

"yet you label men that are total tops"

no, the author did not. men on this and every single other gay networking site I've visited or been a member of have labeled THEMSELVES as total tops. the author is simply describing a self-provided label, not providing one himself.

"Not every "total" top is as much of an ass, basket case, or wussy as you make us out to be."

for the love of literacy, you should really have read the entire article before responding to it. the author clearly describes tops he knows that are not as you claim he is describing.

I, for one, will never hook up with a total top for the following reason: he can have no personal experience of what it is I'd be going through as the bottom so as to make it as great as possible for me. I know guys that prefer to top and I know guys that simply refuse to ever be the bottom. aside from physical discomfort issues (which is certainly the case for some guys), the most articulate response I've received to my queries of 'why not' have been along the lines of 'I ain't gonna be no one's bitch'. transparently pointless and silly machismo to the core. but as the author pointed out, they're still as gay as I am, no matter how macho their self-wrought 'total top' image makes them out to be.

While I respect that the author had a point to make, and I generally respect the various opinions of responders here (and I've had random folks email me out of the blue to talk about what I wrote), I find your cherry picking, appeal to ridicule, and use of "red herrings" to be specious at best.

"Silly machismo"? Who does that refer to? Do I feel macho when I top? I think bottoms feel macho? Yes, I'm believe they do, or at least they enjoy bottoming, which is why they do it. Do I respect the bottoms I've been with because they can "handle" bottoming? Of course.
Or is "silly machismo" just your blanket label for total tops? That's an interesting proof by example, as you state later on.

Yes, they author did label men that are total tops...for the sake of your literacy (since you want to be insulting), re-read what he/I wrote. While he referred to the label of "total top", he expounded upon his perceived impression of's in his article, and I'm not going to run on pointing out where.
That would be "reinforcing a definition/stereotype", or what the kids simply call "labeling".

He did infer, imply, suggest, point out, etc. that total tops are/can be asses, basket cases, or wusses...again, re-read what he wrote. I can respect his position/opinion, and I can courteously disagree with it.

If you have issues with total tops, that's ok as well...but don't assume the reason someone is a total top is because "the most articulate response I've received to my queries of 'why not' have been along the lines of 'I ain't gonna be no one's bitch'. transparently pointless and silly machismo to the core"; your words.
You've never asked *me* why I'm a total top...I could give you articulate reasons, but I don't think you'd care about my position.

Total bottoms, total tops, vers, oral-only bottoms/tops, et al...whatever makes a gay man happy is fine...where I believe literacy should come in is in actually reading someone's profile (assuming they filled it out), so you actually know what they're looking for.

Even better, try talking to them and hopefully not randomly labeling them.

Nuttin like an on-line bitch fight.

your position might seem less hollow if you did indeed share your reasons for only topping.

Wahhh. Not too offended, are we?

Interesting post, Cyrus.
This topic has been discussed here: http://www.[filtered word]/forum/topics/life-of-a-masculine-bottom too - but with a total different twist. From the view of a top-looking bottom who has a hard time finding tops who would top him. I especially like this part of the discussion "I know we here in SF have a running joke.. "SF, is like a vortex, to live here , you must be a bottom LOL" there are 10 bottoms for every 1/2 top."

Long live total tops. They are SOOO hard to find!


this is a silly post. so there are total tops just as there are total bottoms. big deal. to each his own

Justin is right. Complacency, arrogance, controlling behavior, attitude, stereotyping, etc., etc., are a total turn off, whether Top or Bottom! I flipped enthusiastically when young. Now as a top "dad" (another stereotype...) I worship my bottoms & truly get off by getting them off. If there were no bottoms, there would be no tops! To each his own.

Hey, like what you say here, my problem is that as I'm a big guy I find that there are lots of bottoms that roll over and just expect to be serviced! They assume I'm a top, most times that's not a problem, I'm well up to the task, but hey, I reckon its much better if you fuck me too!!!

I was in a relationship with a(n increasingly insane) butch power bottom for 13 years...I had gotten fucked and liked it (if I was high enough) back in the day, but he wouldn't think of touching my ass. I Just wanted the occasional finger to a prostate (he was HIV+ and we always played safe, so, yeah latex gloves..)but he would give a minute or two and go get a drink.
I tried humor ("I've got a prostate and I ain't afraid to use it") sulking, I never demanded anything...He would say things like "you're not really gay" , and I would say "I sure like to suck dick for a straight guy". Last year, after a cumulative +6000 hours in his ass, he informed we we didn't have a relationship.
The guy I'm with now is also a big construction dude, who calls me daddy, and is more than happy to fuck and get fucked. I'm sold on versatility now, and being able to flip fuck.
I think it was Bobby Michaels ("Rimpig" on Nifty Erotic Archive) who wrote "Real men fuck men, and real hot men get fucked.."

Sexuality tends to be like a rushing stream, changing in relation to the external conditions. What gets you off one day, might not work for you the next. Sure, some of us might perfer one particular approach over the other (Top or Bottom), that is a chosen mode of our expression. Even in that defined approach, there can be alot of flexibility, as to just how, or what we want of the experiance (rough, loving, kinky, vanilla etc...). I guess it's akin to flavours;and some might not have very developed taste buds, compaired with another more demanding gourmet (then again, some perfer to stay in the kitchen and cook).

Well put... I personally have seen my sexual tastes do a complete 360 degree turn at age 52- and tried stuff I never thought I could get into, (and loved it). And thus, I have to agree with Cyrus- Should I meet someone who says "I am exclusively this, or that," it sends out a signal to me, that this would not be someone I would want to have sex with beyond a casual hook-up. Always doing the same thing in the same roles, (maybe doing it over a different piece of furniture,)- I think it would get boring quick.

Just like others said there are total bottoms just like total tops, whatever floats their boat I suppose. We can never tell what gets people off, I love sucking cock and fucking ass, and I like getting fucked (it's more of a personal thing for me so I like to be very close to someone who fucks me rather than be too casual about it, I know, I'm weird.) Once in a while I'll let someone suck me off but I'm picky about that too, quality of quantity I guess.

Would I play with someone who is a total top or a total bottom? Absolutely! Would I be their friend? Of course! Would I be their partner? Depends, but I've been in enough relationships to know that in the long run being fully versatile and being with someone who is either total top or total bottom can place a strain in a relationship, especially when you feel like your needs aren't being met. Opening up a relationship is an option, but I tend to be a fan of a total package deal and if it never happens oh well I'm happy enough in life to go through it solo. This doesn't work for everyone however.

I used to feel the same way about total tops, but as I've gotten older and equally more jaded in life I let people do their own thing as long as they stay out of my way and try not to force their will upon me. As for the guys that want to pound your butt in their first message, that's an easy remedy, the delete button works wonders and I have no problems using it, if they become a pest they can always be blocked. Plenty of men out there to play with by far, have cock will travel is my motto.

wow! you know i've never really thought of it before... especially like that. as of right now all i know is being a bottom. and i still have yet to recieve anal sex. all ive ever done is oral sex in which i of coarse was the one going down. i had one guy who started to go down on me but i dont know if i didnt like the way he did it or if i just didn't like it. but i know im not predisposed to 'topping' a guy. i just kinda fall, without a second thought, into being the submissive role. but i have to admit i do want to know the pleasure of topping. though seeing as im still an anal virgin im in no rushto find out for sure. though i will say this i wont let a man in unless in a serious term relationship. guys who are just looking for fun... you just get my hand... and depending on if i like you enough... my mouth. but only because i have an oral fixation. >:P lol

well put dude love to hear more of your thoughts cyrus!

Hi gentlemen. I was just posting this on the DD thread about "Tops, bottoms" and thought I would share my 2 cents... This is what I wrote there. http://www.[filtered word]/forum/topics/life-of-a-masculine-bottom
Good point WeHoDawg. I will share my latest from my field studies. I was testing various generics recently (Viagra and Cialis) to see if that company delivers a good product. I even tried a new trick to grind the blue bill in a mortar, dissolve it in apple juice (to avoid the bitter taste) and see if that would kick better. And gentlemen - it did. I was transforming in a raging top. Just yesterday it happened again. I was first sucking a mature dad with a big fat uncut cock and thought "Hmm - i would like to ride him!" but then I endet up eating his ass, fingering his hole and eventually fucking him for 15 minutes with much (and growing) pleasure. So it seems that we can see the conversion of NippleBull from former "mostly" power bottom to now true versatile man. More soon when my experiments develop further...

Happy Easter

What a great post and some great responses (almost as varied as the 'total tops' and 'power bottoms'). I think your points were well presented. I also think much of the 'total' or 'power' complexes come from early childhood experiences where the individual learned some behavior which became a learned tactic for dealing with life situations.

My roommate (only roommate) is a 'power bottom.' He seems to have learned that if he lets a guy pound him, then he can get his way (in many respects from being taken care of to demanding the good things in life). He gladly admits he's the 'pretty one' in the relationship and likes to be pampered.

Then, I've met the 'total tops' (one particular on this site that keeps bugging me). I wonder if they have some physical reason (painful hemorrhoids) or some mental experience that puts the "Do Not Enter" sign up in their erotic prostate zone. What's really surprising is that the male physiology is built and positioned in such a way that every male's erotic area is just inside their anus. It's a fact of the way the male human body is constructed (minus any surgery). So, then what's the fear factor of having that area stimulated?

An interesting experience where I did date a 'bi' guy for five months that had some experiences with men. He was just coming out of a divorce (to a woman) and wanted to go back to guys. He would get really nervous anytime I went close to his hole. Then, after breaking up over a year ago, I was chatting with him recently. I asked if he was still a virgin back there. He said no. So, in that instance I think you're right on the point that it is the fear of losing masculinity if you get pounded. He had obviously over time dealt with that fear and succumbed to having a guy inside him. We've seen that fear in history where conquerers would anally rape their captors to humiliate them and prove the conquerer's superiority. So too, I think you see this mental fear of succumbing to the other man's control if one let's himself get topped.

The other point which I think you touched on was that many 'relationships' (quotes used on purpose) are actually just codependent arrangements where the two people are fuck buddies or playmates without any intimacy. Sounds kind of harsh but that's what I see living in San Francisco as the predominant couple population (note there are many examples of loving interdependent couples in SF it just not the visible large percentage). I remember on a date with a guy that I had been getting to know for several weeks, we were discussing relationships and I asked if he had ever been 'in love' in his last relationship(s) of 10+ years. He said he'd never really experienced that feeling of love (just for keeping tabs he was a total bottom). I kind of found it sad but understood. For him (and others), I think they've never really achieved autonomy in early life. So they find they like other men and fit nicely into that niche of the child-like behavior but as an adult.

I have been lucky to have been in true love at least once in my life. And, like one of the other respondents, if it happens again great. If not, I'm fine with living solo and having great friends.

I'm about to leave San Francisco to live in Pittsburgh, PA while attending graduate school. It should be an interesting experience contrasting the gay social scene between the two coasts :). I'm actually looking forward to the experience. I think I'll bring something to Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh will share something with me.

Thanks for a great article handsome. It would be fun to get to know you first :)

I agree substantially with Cyrus's position, and at the same time I feel the whole top-vs.-bottom issue misses a crucial point. When men ask me if I am a top or a bottom, my impulse is to say, "Neither." For me this is more than a coy way of saying, "versatile," however. I resist any label that seems to limit my erotic expression. I can manifest many different erotic roles depending on my partner, the situation, and other subtle factors too numerous and dynamic to pin down with labels.

Over and above my aversion to this kind of labeling is my deep conviction that the relationship—the actual process of relating intimately to another man—is, or should be, more important than any given sexual act. Cyrus alludes to this in finding sexual invitations without prior acquaintance off-putting. If I can cultivate true intimacy, a gentle touch on the hand can be more intimate and hot than all the "pounding" in the world. When I look back over roughly 35 years of active, gay life, it is not the sexual acts I remember most, but rather how fully I was able to know a man and be known by him. Some of my most intimate moments occurred with a man with whom I did not have sex at all, and he is the one I remember most often when I think of men I've loved.

As I've written before in response to other blogs, I believe we all want to love and to be loved, but that we gay folk often settle for sex instead because it's easier, or because of internalized homophobia that convinces us that we are neither worthy nor capable of love. In the name of liberation we embraced all-sex-all-the-time as an ideal, but the terrible cost has been an epidemic of loneliness and spiritual emptiness. In essence we bought into homophobic society's appraisal of gayness meaning just what we do in bed, and now some of us wear that as a symbol of freedom from hetero norms, oblivious to the irony.

I have had enough sex-first-relationship-later (if at all) encounters to know I want more than another hot sexual experience, another notch on my erotic pistol. I want to know another man and be known by him, and if a loving sexual relationship grows out of that process, great. If not, my life is more enriched, more ennobled by reaching for love than by just getting off. When a man I don't know asks me what I like sexually, I like to say, "Get to know me as a person, and the sex will take care of itself."
Finally, I want to add a point of information regarding terminology. In the leather community top and bottom do not refer to who fucks or gets fucked but to roles of dominance and submission. A leather top could direct his bottom to fuck him like a drunken baboon, for instance, and good leather bottoms do as they're told.<G>

Those unfamiliar with leather traditions often mistakenly assume leathersex is not about intimacy but about abuse of one kind or another. Responsible, knowledgeable SmBd play is safe, sane, consensual, and fun, and the communication and self-awareness needed to create a mutually enjoyable leather scene encourages a depth of mutual knowing that can easily surpass less conscious forms of sexual expression.

Is this how wretchedly shallow it's all become? Little wonder gay men aren't making any actual progress when we're so stuck in mindless and loveless objectification and sexualization (of other guys) that we actually make such a big deal about topping and bottoming. It was all trial-and-error before the 'net anyhow so you'd expect the hard-core flakes to be satisfied, if not on their way to growing up.

We all have our preferences and at the end of the day there's no connection between desire and happiness anyhow - more often than not they're completely at odds. William's choice to not buy into it at all is the obviously sane way to go - more the better if you have some 101 understanding of the cerebral aspects of leather rather than blabbering inappropriate crap about arrogance when you're possibly a judgmental control freak yourself.

God help us all if the disgruntled suburban neurotics with a wish list keep setting the "gay" what str8 guys do when they can't get what they want for free: pay fer it!

Interesting I label myself as top as that is my preferred position but I have experienced the other position with a guy i met regularly so know what it is like. .If I am with a guy who is versatile and seeing him regularly I have no objections to his wishes.
I would meet a versatile or a bottom.

Interesting I label myself as top as that is my preferred position but I have experienced the other position with a guy i met regularly so know what it is like. .If I am with a guy who is versatile and seeing him regularly I have no objections to his wishes.
I would meet a versatile or a bottom.

I find this whole top/bottom thing irrelevant.
For the record, when I started out (in early 1960s provincial UK) the pattern of most gay relationships was that the young newbies generally started out bottoming for older more experienced partners until they graduated to topping the next generation to come along, and simultaneously went 50/50 with each other on the side.
It had nothing to do with how butch or nellie you appeared to be - age largely determined your role. A young guy topping an older one was considered rather sad and pathetic - there was a good deal of scorn for 'old queens'.
This mentoring pattern was already starting to disappear at the time, and through the 60's and 70's, as homosexuality was legalised and gradually became more public, the fashion was to be 'liberated', not to be strictly butch or bitch (as top and bottom were then known) but to be fluid and flexible.
That suits me, as I find that what I want to do varies with the person and the situation - it's not something I can decide before we've met. And it might not be the same the second time!
Which is kind of where I am now. I don't like the terms 'top' or 'bottom' because of the superior/inferior connotation. Naturally, all my life I've been accused of not being able to make my mind up - I prefer to say I don't like closing off possibilities.
And top/bottom is now no longer relevant to me, if it ever really was: I no longer practice anal intercourse - because I find topping impossible with a condom, and I won't do it without (and before you ask, viagra etc just gives me a headache), and taking it in the arse is nowadays physically painful.
So it's strictly oral and manual which is fine by me, but not for a lot of guys on these sites, it seems, who insist I can't be 'really' gay if I don't do anal!
I guess what I'm saying is that accepting labels and then trying to fit them doesn't, in my experience, reflect who we really are, and what's worse, conditions us to behave in stereotypical ways - just that the previous older top/younger bottom paradigm did - that may at times be at odds with our true wishes.


It sounds like you are less turned off by "total tops," than the manner in which these tops have approached you. I have never been interested in being fucked, and, at this stage in my sexual career, I doubt that I ever will. I don't think I'm more masculine or "less gay" or any such dysfunction (nor was I sexually abused as a child). I just don't find getting fucked appealing, and I make that clear upfront with my sexual partners -- always have.

I LIVE for guys who love to get fucked by me, and I do everything I can to make them -- and me -- get off. There are men who are tops, those who are bottoms, those who don't like sex at all, bi-sexuals, and then the catch-all versatile camp. I respect all those approaches to sexual behavior equally, and tend to shy away from guys who present themselves as versatile, as they will generally want to fuck you eventually, and get upset when you refuse (but, I have found, that bisexuals are some of the best fucks to be had by a top like me -- they want to get fucked, without reciprocation, I have found).

You, Cyrus, sound like a versatile guy who should probably seek out other versatiles and steer clear of tops. There are loads of "total bottoms" who LOVE "total tops." Believe me. :)

Butch Harris, Publisher
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Butch, you get my vote for the most cogent and sensible reply on this thread. My experience mirrors yours, with the caveat that even though I might fantasize about getting fucked, I can't - that's CAN'T, not won't - do it. Pain and nausea, dude. Pain and nausea. That combination's a real thrill-killer! Consequently I'm a total top. By the way, there are other activities that are truly romantic and that don't involve the anus of either partner. Two tops? Hey, it works for me. LOL!

This Is a VERY silly article, almost not worth responding to. I had spent 23 years with a total bottom and I am a total top. We were very much In love, built a business together and lived a totally monogamous lifestyle. Why anyone could consider themselves to be "versatile" Is beyond me. I dont enjoy bottoming, dont enjoy giving blowjobs either. The guys that I date would never want to top either. I would never consider dating a versatile guy because I think that he Is confused about his sexuallity. I actually don't ever trust "versatile" guys. I do not believe that to be a bottom Is any way relating to their masculinity, I have dated ONLY masculine bottoms. The only reason that I am single Is because my partner died from a heart atttack, otherwise we would have been together for life. I have bottomed years ago but never found It the least bit enjoyable and i would never bottom for anyone again. This foolish article shows some of the warped thoughts that some older single men believe. I believe that a total top Is a total top and nothing more but that a versatile top Is a bottom and a versatile botom Is a total bottom with Issues because he mistakenly assumes that to be a total bottom refers to his mannerisim's, also true Is that there Is a shortage of true bottoms, the world Is full of older fem bottoms that nobody wants so to pass themselves off as "versatile" Is their plan for men to find them attractive but that plan Is as silly as this article because lies wont work, except possibly for hookup sex.

erik43pgh - your response is great. It sounds like a parody. My response is certainly a parody too!!!

You wrote (my comments in brackets)...

This foolish article (and your response?) shows some of the warped thoughts that some older single men believe.

- I believe that a total top Is a total top and nothing more
(Some commenter described that they know men who have changed and who flip and who are versatile. You seem to prefer labels that should never change. But can you assume that this is how "it" should be? You seem to think that a total top looses his label if he would act or even think about getting fucked.)

- a versatile top Is a bottom
(You sound like some total bottoms who complain about versatile tops who would not deliver the total top role they would prefer. Nothing "worse" than two versatile men who are looking for a total top? Is that what you mean?)

- a versatile botom Is a total bottom with Issues because he mistakenly assumes that to be a total bottom refers to his mannerisim's
(We could ad... A total top is a top with issues because he mistakenly assumes that being even slightly bottom refers to his mannerisms.)

- also true Is that there Is a shortage of true bottoms, the world Is full of older fem bottoms that nobody wants so to pass themselves off as "versatile" Is their plan for men to find them attractive but that plan Is as silly as this article because lies wont work, except possibly for hookup sex.
(Great - so here we have ANOTHER label: "Unwanted-older-fem-bottoms" disguising as "True bottoms". Maybe we should also invent the label "Bitter-older-unwanted-former-total-top-with-no-money-for-cialis-or-caverject" to be complete?"

(parody end)

And here is an interesting poll.
Total Top Confessions

How about a new thread <strong>"Power Tops. Ugh."</strong>, Cyrus, to cover the notorious "DOUBLEPLUS alpha-male syndrome"?

Just found that...

<strong>Total Top</strong>
A rump-spelunker who only puts his penis in the rear of fellow men. He does not take it from behind under any circumstances; unless he is presented with a powertop.

<strong>Power Top</strong>
A gay man that only tops tops, even if they are total tops. This would imply a DOUBLEPLUS alpha-male syndrome

"I have certainly met some very kind and sweet total tops that are not this model of faux-macho obnoxiousness. So maybe there are just guys like that, and if people are happy with what they want and their partners are down with it as well, go wild"

That is me...happy with who I am. Some are tops, some are bottoms, some are versatile....they can't all be like you who is have to accept people for who they are which is I think you are trying to say?

Interesting articles, keep up.

People label themselves for reasons we can never understand completely. I was predominately a top, but would bottom to return the favor. I just liked to fuck ass and was willing to give up mine in return. What I enjoyed was the intimacy of the sex. I beat off when they fucked me and I really enjoyed the climax after I got over the initial pain. I preferred to top and to suck dick. I let them suck me, but it only got me hard, I could not climax easily receiving oral sex. I had one poor thing suck me for three hours before I got off. He loved it, I was getting bored. It felt good, but it was wearing me out. I might have called it off, but he was so cute. Some total tops are that because they have never fallen in love and wanted to share total sexual intimacy with someone. When you are in love, you will do just about anything for your lover. I mean lover, not sex partner. Gay men are just as cought up in the sterotypes about sex as straight people are. Some think that if they take a dick up the ass, they are more gay than if they top. After all, they are doing the fucking. Let me tell you what a wise old friend of mine whose name was George said to me. He had the wisdom of the ages and he owned and ran a gay bar. Honey, if you take a dick up the ass or you stick your dick up a guy ass hole and like it, YOUR QUEER. If what you want is that guy sexually, then you have to play his game. If not, then just yell next and move on. There is some relief in the making. Today's younger urban gay man is more concerned about relationships, love, marriage and the future than the next orgasm. Then, who is top and bottom can switch or may remain predominately or totally one way. That is up to the parties. I may want to bottom now because of age or other personal preference. I am willing to give my self to my lover. I do resent him talking it before it is offered. There is nothing dirty about sex, it is just a three letter word. However, love, now there is a four letter word that is dirty from the beginning. More killing, hate and destruction of lives is done in the name of love than sex. People use the word love to get people to do all sorts of things that they would not normally do. All you can do is to stay away from the people who expect you to fulfill their shortcomings and sexual inadequacies. Total tops do not bother me if they are properly trained. If they are not, then go fuck a laytex ass hole, because you won't know how to treat this one attached to a real man who only wants your dick because it feels good and is attached to a person he cares about. Otherwise, I have ten or more of various sizes in the closet with as much emotion and caring as some total tops show. You just have to screen your prospective partners a little better. Me, I am getting up there in age (60) and at this age I am willing to make some allowances and to try to train them if they are willing to even make an attempt to learn. However, in defense of total tops, I do appreciate a hard dick and after I cum, I guess I lose interest in trying to fuck them, so I can live with it on a temporary basis. they just are not going to be the father of my children or the children we seem to be trying to make. Take care.

It was just last year that I discovered that a cross-section of bisexual men (both married and single) are essentialist and homophobic. I made this eye-opening discovery after what I would term a relationship (albeit, only five months) with a single, never-been-married, self-proclaimed bisexual man. He bought me flowers, chocolates, presents, seats at the opera, dinners, etc. I made him breakfasts, dinners, bought him a few gifts that he refused for the oddest reasons. It seemed he wanted to romance me - to be the "man" in the relationship - so I went with the flow. He loved to cuddle, hold hands, have oral sex etc. He slept over about four nights a week.

We had met on a (advertised) "gay" chat site, that of course included bisexual and transgendered men (personally I'm not into labeling people according to their sexual orientation). During our first meeting it seemed he felt it important to tell me about his other side that he wanted to exclude me from and I was happy to oblige. About once every two weeks (or less) he used crystal meth. He told me he "blasted" (injected) it and had one or two day s&m/bondage sessions with guys from his "stable" (as he referred to it). He had a room purpose-designed in his apartment for this. After these "sessions" he would be irritable and exhausted and it seemed he just needed to be comforted. I accepted him as he was -- and if he had wanted me to be part of his "chemsex" stable, I probably would have joined in. But I didn't judge him for it in any way. When I was a teenager I had experimented with heroin and cocaine and knew how the media and authorities demonize drugs without taking other factors into consideration. Supposedly William Burroughs injected heroin on a regular basis for 25 years or more and there are many famous authors and writers and everyday people, including professionals - like this man I met - who do the same without fitting the stereotype image of the druggie.

His drug taking was his business. But I started to notice that he was easily agitated or angered, yet at the time I never associated it with crystal. Right from the start I told him that I wanted him to feel totally free because that's the sort of person I am. I need to be self-autonomous. I don't like attachment. I believe in "if you love someone, set them free." I don't want love to become a prison cell. I thought he understood this -- because he told me it was the exact same way he felt. But then I noticed he had been- and was frequently lying to me - probably from the start - even though I had told him that just because we see each other a lot and have intimacy, we should still live our own lives. An example of him lying - I call him inviting him to share a large pizza (he lived next door) him saying to me that he had too much work and didn't have time to come over. An hour later I see him ensconced chatting with guys on the gay chat site and notice him getting into arguments in chat, using the word "fag" or "queer" as a general term for gay men.

Here's where it gets interesting. I had a gay couple visiting me for a few days from New York. I told them about "Steve" - and being gay rights activists themselves, and having been "around the block" more than me, they enlightened me about what they said was a "large percentage" of bi men who actually look upon gay men as inferior. They told me many bi men "otherize" gay men in a similar fashion to racism, sexism or chauvinism. They consider gay men as less than equal to themselves and ironically like to consider themselves straight rather than bisexual. They told me - and these guys had met Harvey Milk, worked for the New York Times and ran TV ads etc campaigning for gay rights - there are many bisexual men who are actually more homophobic than "straight" men they have known in professional circles. So they initiated a little "social experiment" to show me the real "Steve".

They created profiles on the same site as "Steve" posing as "dominant, masculine, bisexual men, interested in p&p, s&m and bondage with other bi-sexual men." Almost immediately "Steve" was messaging them wanting to hook-up. I watched in shock as "Steve" mentioned me once, calling me a "fucking fag" that was acting as though "he was my fag boyfriend." My friends played along with him denigrating "fags" and "queers" and I got the impression that "Steve" had enjoyed the fact that he had "played" me (a "fag") and after discarded me for no particular reason (except that I was a "fag"). After that experience I noticed in general chat, other bi men who appeared to talk down to gay men, especially gay men who were "out".
It was something I had never thought about, but I witnessed that it does exist. Some bi-sexual men - like "Steve" - only have rough, violent or kinky sexual relations with gay men. It is the rough sex that their wives won't partake in. They can do this without any feeling or identification with their gay sex partner ("slave" "bitch" or"dog").

So gay men -- wake up -- like I did ... eventually. Don't allow so-called "bi men" to use, abuse and discard you -- unless your lust for sexual and emotional abuse is higher than your own integrity and self esteem. More fool me. I was gullible and learned the "hard" way.

Think you touched a nerve! Brilliant article, Cyrus, and despite some of the comments posted, a totally valid and interesting topic to explore. These are the conversations we should be having as a community. A little self awareness and insight never hurt anyone.
I would consider myself a versatile top, because I prefer topping but I will sometimes bottom depending on the person and the circumstances and my own impulses during a sexual encounter. As for all these deeply offended 'total tops' and their outraged posts, "methinks the lady doth protest too much."
I've also come across the type of guy you describe, many times -- guys who come on aggressively about fucking me, but then respond with what can only be described as disgust when I suggest that I'd be into fucking them, too. The issue is not that a guy doesn't enjoy getting fucked. I have no interest in fucking someone who really doesn't enjoy it. I'm not a sadistic prick. The issue is guys who react to the suggestion that they might bottom as if you're insulting them. "No way, man. I got no interest in being a bitch." I actually had a guy say that to me. Oh. So anyone who bottoms IS a bitch? And despite the angry denials here, it is so obvious that many of these guys certainly DO believe that bottoming would make them less of a man -- and inherent in that belief is their own conflicted feelings about being gay to begin with. In other words, internalized homophobia. (Just like those pitiful, self-deluded guys in oppressive, machismo cultures who think that if they don't give head or get fucked, no matter how many men they have sex with, they're not gay.) Which sucks for them, and I can sympathize with their anxiety because I struggled with the same shit -- WHEN I WAS 17. Face it guys, if you're so goddamn uptight about the IDEA of ever even THINKING ABOUT getting fucked, you have some issues to deal with. If you don't want to do it because it reminds you of an abusive trauma, or it hurts too much, or you have a phobia of losing control of your bowels, that's one thing. But if you don't want to do it because "I don't do that" or "I just don't want to" or "My ass is not a pussy" (another clever answer I've actually heard from some hostile douche-bag), you should maybe have a chat with your shrink. Or if you don't have a shrink, get one.
My last point is, I think that there's hope for the future. I think this argument is, more and more, a generational one. Just as the youngsters today tend to be much more flexible when it comes to defining themselves as gay or straight or whatever, I've noticed that they tend not to be as uptight about labeling themselves as top or bottom. Hopefully one day the more hostile, defensive, super uptight total tops will fade away, like the bleached-blonde tanning-bed-lined pornstars of the 80's.

Total Top = Preference

Whether a gay man identifies himself as a total top or total bottom is strictly a matter of preference, not sexual orientation and certainly not masculinity. When a guy tells me he is a total top, I don't assume he has never been fucked (though that might be true). Instead, I understand him to mean that he now prefers exclusively to fuck and not to be fucked. I assume that he probably learned his preference through experience and has concluded that being a bottom during anal sex is just something he prefers not to do.

Similarly, I am a total bottom. This doesn't mean I haven't fucked anyone but only that I have now concluded that I prefer exclusively to be fucked and not to fuck. As a total bottom, I prefer to have sex with a total top man because I don't want to get involved with someone who may wish from time to time to get fucked by me (or another guy). Especially if he is secretly hoping I will top him now and then, he is sure to be disappointed and his unsatisfied desire to get fucked once in awhile will eat away at the relationship until trust deteriorates completely. So I don't want to start down that unhappy road.

Now some guys don't have a strict preference and they are truly versatile. Even though some versatile men may tend toward one sexual role more than the other, they are not total tops or total bottoms because their preference is flexible instead of rigid. This great variety among us is one of the marvelous things about being gay and I celebrate our diversity in this regard.

Of course, some total tops are jerks, just as some total bottoms are. But I don't think that has anything to do with their preferences when it comes to fucking. It's just that some people are jerks, and there's nothing more to it than that!

fucking queens.

The gay world is so diverse, there's something for everyone.
I am a total bottom and am seeking a total top. I agree with some of the writers here who spoke up in support of total tops and bottoms. Its just a preference the way many gay men prefer oral only. I wouldn't be happy as a versatile guy cos I have no interest in fucking someone. But I respect the preference of versatile men everywhere. Their preference is as valid as mine. I realize there are more versatile men than total A or total B. I'm glad that they have a larger pool to choose from. I have thought about my preference for some years as have many gay men. I concluded that I'm most happy as a total bottom and hope that other gay men would respect that and be happy for me. I think I'd be happiest with a total top not a vers top. Total tops are harder to find. But those are the men whom I seek. Hope there still a few good ones out there. Peace and love to everyone.

How can these people want to be respected as homo, if they even respect the preferences of others, it doesn´t matter if the guy is total top, total bottom or versatile.
Live and let others Live their lifes the way they want to.

Cyrus, you are just full of yourself and full of crap. Did you ever stop to think that there are actually men out here who just don't like being a bottom? What is the point of doing something your do not like? You obviously have not met someone who just does not want something that reminds them of a turd in their butts.

When I was younger I met men who insisted that I would like it. After 30 seconds the couple who tried stopped. They could see that I just did not like it. They respected who I am unlike someone like you who would not. So, grow up.

Wow... yeah, you don't sound like a total top asshole at all.

Was that to prove Cyrus' point?

When I was young and inexperienced I would only let guys suck me or jerk off. With time and a patient teacher I got over that and quick. The first time I knew that my ass was meant to be fucked was such a great and liberating day for me. To that man I will always be greatful and still to this day, if I need a hot image..presto there is sexy, hung, hairy Les with a cock that was so beautiful. DAMN... time for bed lol Bottoms, Tops love them all.

Wow tons of biphobia from daddyhunta09.

Who would have expected that GAY men can be biphobic assholes? (sarcasm)

Not all bisexual men are the way that daddyhunta09 wrote and I can think of TONS of gay men who are yet he is not mentioning them or even writing about how gay men can hate other gay men and PNP and use meth as well.

As far as the total top thing goes yes it does exist.

What about queer men who are not into anal sex at all? They do exist and I'm one of them.

When I give a guy anal sex if he even wants it I'll use fingers or toys and not my penis. This is rare as I'm only into oral sex and most of the men who I get into relationships are too and I tell them this before we have sex.

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It took only the first couple of paragraphs to stop and declare, "I dissent!" I am all about real men who are total tops. If a guy has even tried bottom, I'm probably not interested. if it weren't for these "total tops," then i'd have no one to hook up with. I have yet to have one make me feel like i'm not masculine just because i'm a "total bottom." Actually, they've all been as turned on by my masculinity as i of theirs. So, ur theory sucks. :)